I recently acquired a Charter Arms Undercover, in .38SPL, and finally got to the range to work it out...

By Lokidude
Tue, Dec 18, 2007 11:05 pm

I recently acquired a Charter Arms Undercover, in .38SPL, and finally got to the range to work it out…

First off, the trigger is a bit rough, but not unpleasant, in DA mode.  Single action breaks cleanly and smoothly.  Cylinder release is the same as an S&W (fitting, since the gun is the same size and profile as a J-frame).  The grips are more filling than most snubs I’ve fingerprinted, but not so large as to be unconcealable.  My personal pistol has an exposed hammer, and I wouldn’t vary from that, as I like the SA option, and think hammerless revolvers just look wrong, but the arm is available in various configurations, including blued, shrouded hammer, Southpaw (left-handed setup), and a six shot “Police” model.

The sights are nothing spectacular from an accuracy standpoint, a simple trough and fixed ramp, but are durable and servicable at the distances at which one would employ such an arm.

Now to the fun part:  How does it shoot?

The rounds I tested were all 158 gr lead rounds, both roundnose and semi-wadcutters, the same rounds I practice with in my .357.  I did my firing at approximately seven yards.  Recoil was quite stout, but manageable.  In double action, all five rounds could be covered by my open hand, and in single, they were closer to a palm-sized group.  With some further testing of ammunition, and more practice with the gun, I fully expect to be getting much tighter groups, I honestly think five shots double action in under a palm-sized group at 7 yards is not unreasonable. 

Glock 21 review and range report by Felix Estrella. Combining two posts from his website.

By randy
Tue, Dec 11, 2007 9:08 pm

Forgive me father for I have sinned. I’m having lustful thoughts
Originally posted on Felix’s website July 17, 2007.  Used with permission.

... about the new (used) mod. 21 Glock I brought home tonight. I’ve always been a disciple of St. Browning, but I now find myself looking lustfully at the ergonomics of the Glock, fondling the Glock, and lusting for a rangetrip with the Glock. Please father. What am I to do?

On my list of “nevers” had been the Glock. I once rented a Glock 19 (in 9mm) and hated it. But when I tried a model 21 (in 45 ACP) I changed my mind. Something about the ergonomics of the thing really clicked with me.

The local gun-pusher had a used model 21 on the shelf, so naturally I looked at it and it followed me home.

Some comparison pics. First, side-by-side with an XD-45 tactical,

and a side-by-side with a 1911A1.

Why the ergonomics of the model 21 work me, can be seen in the following picture. Though the stock thickness of the 1911, the XD-45 and the G-21 is about the same, the length of the G-21 is a bit longer than either the 1911 or the XD-45, and I have gorilla paws.

The front-strap finger grooves don’t hurt either.

And a few more for the simple pleasure of viewing gun porn.

With a Scherer butt-plug already installed, and Wolff guide rod and beefier recoil springs on order, I’m off to burn offerings at the altar of St. Browning, and beg for forgiveness for my heresy.

The lusting is over and the deed is done—Glock 21 range report
Originally posted on Felix’s website July 28, 2007.  Used with permission.

Took my Glock 21 to the range today. I’d installed a Wolff guide rod and 17lb Wolff spring.

Let’s just say it was anticlimactic. I was expecting fireworks and the earth to move, and instead all I got was 100% reliability and excellent accuracy. I was shooting standard 230gr RN jacketed loads (around 830fps), unsupported, one- and two-handed at a target 15yds away. This target was shot two-handed,

and this target was shot one-handed (strong hand).

What I LOVE about the pistol:

* The weight is great
* The balance is great, not muzzle heavy
* It’s very pointable and the sights (white outlined rectangle for the rear, white dot for the front) are awesome for flash shooting- “FRONT SIGHT!!! FRONT SIGHT!”
* The ergonomics of the grip are perfect for me, i.e. big, bear pawns for hands.

What I don’t much care for:

* The sharp edges of the mag. release cut into the meat of the thumb of my left (supporting) hand. It’s nice to have an extended mag. release, but does it have to be so friggen sharp?
* Takedown is not great. Those little tiny serrated tabs on either side of the frame that have to be pushed down are difficult to activate. Not sure I could take down a Glock under pressure, if my fingers were covered in sweat or blood and my life depended on it.
* Without a butt-plug, the hole in the butt makes the gun look .... unfinished. Get a butt-plug.

I fired about 60 rounds (yes, barely broke a sweat) and didn’t experience a single failure. Mind you, they were my handloads so I’d have been surprised if I had experienced a FTE or a FTF.

The heavy trigger took a little getting used to as all my 1911s have 2lb triggers, or lighter, but for a combat trigger it’s not bad. There’s a fair amount of take up, but the trigger is smooth and even.

Is it my favorite 45 pistol? Don’t know, but I don’t hate it.

Review reposted from the old site

By Netpackrat
Tue, Dec 11, 2007 6:56 pm

I originally posted this to The Other Side Forum on May 3, 2006:

I finally picked up my “new” CZ-52 Czech Canceler today.  This was supposed to be my BAG day gun, but it was late due to the company I bought it from not getting the shipment in from their supplier when they expected it.  Oddly enough, I called them yesterday morning and was told they still hadn’t gotten them yet.  Then, a few hours later, I got an email from my FFL telling me it had arrived.  Go figure.  Since I have Monday and Tuesday off, I drove right out to get it this afternoon.

Anyway, it’s just your basic CZ-52 surplus pistol in 7.62x25mm Tokarev.  The slide and barrel match, but the frame looks to have been “force matched” at some point at the arsenal (i.e. they stamped new numbers in the frame).  Frame is marked as having been built in ‘53, and all parts are blued.  Grips are the standard ugly plastic military grip panels.  The pistol included a cheezy military flap holster, cleaning rod, and 2 magazines.I purchased an additional 2 magazines (aftermarket) since I didn’t know what the pistol was going to include.

Since the range at which I have a membership is on the way home from the FFL’s house, I stopped to try it out.  The only ammo I have found for it locally (so far) is some corrosive surplus FMJ, which came packaged in 70 round boxes, of which I bought 3.  Plainly put, this ammo sucks.  About 1 in 5 rounds failed to fire with the first hammer strike.  Those that I hit a second time fired, but mostly I just cleared them and didn’t bother to pick them up.  Some of the empty casings that I picked up exhibited split necks.  I have to find a source of better ammo for this thing, but that might be a pain since the mail order houses won’t ship to Alaska.

Overall I am pleased with the pistol itself.  I had one failure to eject, and I am blaming that on the ammo along with the failures to fire.  The magazines I am not real impressed with, both the original and aftermarket.  The originals are easier to load and remove due to a slightly longer floorplate, but the heel mag release sucks either way.  It isn’t anywhere close to working as well as the heel release on my Sig P230, but then again that was a $500 pistol, 11 years ago.  One of the original mags wouldn’t reliably operate the slide hold open device on an empty mag.

The sights are small but otherwise not bad, and the pistol fit well in my hands (I have large hands).  The safety is small but easy to switch off, but I generally don’t have problems with any safety (see above).  I did need to use my weak hand to engage the safety, however.  The safety is also a decocker when moved up beyond the safe position, which seems kind of silly since this is a single action semiauto.  There are reports of CZ-52s with worn firing mechanisms that will fire when the decocker is used.  It should also be noted that this pistol should not be dry fired due to a weak firing pin which can break.  Aftermarket pins are available which eliminate this problem

The trigger is kind of heavy; about what I expected for a pistol of this type.  Supposedly one of the firing pin conversions improves the trigger and I may investigate this at some later point.  My gut reaction, is that this pistol has the potential to be a real tack driver.  I’m not the best shot in the world, but when I did my part, and the ammo went bang, the rounds went into the center of the target.  I was only shooting at 10 yards though.  Anyway, I gotta go clean this thing due to the corrosive ammo.  I’m attaching a picture to this message; the mags on the left are the original CZ mags, and the others are aftermarket.

Skipping a bunch of replies that were mostly centered about the difficulties I had obtaining decent ammo in 7.62x25, this is the update I posted to the thread on July 26, 2006:

Finally got to the range with the acquired WWB 7.62 Tokarev ammo today.  Put 100 rounds through the pistol, and every one of them fed perfectly and went bang like they were supposed to.  So the problem was, as I suspected, caused by the surplus submachinegun ammo I was using.  Now to find a cheaper source for the Winchester ammo.  Neat pistol but I probably won’t shoot it a lot until that happens.

It wasn’t an issue with the berdan primed surplus stuff, but in trying to recover my brass I noticed that the CZ really flings the spent casings.  A bunch of them had badly dented case necks, which sort of puzzled me until I realized that they were bouncing off the ceiling inside the covered firing position.  I think most of them can be straightened if and when I start handloading for this caliber.

The current status of this pistol, is that I have ordered a barrel and parts to convert it to 9mm Parabellum, for better ammunition availability.  I will post another range review when I get it together and am able to test it.

An under-appreciated choice

By Jered
Sun, Nov 18, 2007 4:53 pm

Argentinean Federal Police, and the Buenos Aires Province police use the 9mm version of the Bersa Thunder as their sidearm. Recently, during a visit to my favorite gun store, I purchased one of these pistols. Today I got to take it to the range.

The Bersa Thunder .45 uses a single large lug to lock the barrel to the ejection port on the slide. It is a double action design, featuring an ambidextrous safety, an ambidextrous slide lock, and U-system sights. The safety breaks the connection between the trigger and the sear and functions as a decocker. With a screwdriver it is possible to reverse the magazine release, making this pistol easily adaptable for left-handed shooters. The take down lever on the left side of the frame makes disassembly possible with no tools, and after that, the pistol field strips like a Sig Sauer. The Bersa lawyer lock is located by the takedown lever and requires the Bersa hex key to operate it.

At the range today, I had a few malfunctions. The slide failed to return to battery a few times, but after a few rounds, that cleared up and the pistol functioned flawlessly. The recoil was stiff, because it the Thunder weighs in at a not so hefty 27 ounces, compared with my Taurus PT 1911 that weighs in almost 20 ounces heavier at nearly three pounds. I experienced noticeable muzzle flip because of the light weight.

Another downside is the lack of accessories. There are some aftermarket accessories available, but overall they are fairly hard to find.

The double action trigger pull felt excellent, and the reset for single action was short. The trigger was crisp, and has almost no slack in double action mode. It’s definitely a more accurate shooter than I am. Ergonomically, the pistol points well and the grip feels excellent in my hand.

I paid slightly over $400 for this Thunder .45, after taxes. For that money, I feel like I got a great deal. The pistol is well assembled, comes with a decent warranty, and shoots well. For someone who is looking for a good double action .45 on a budget, I’d recommend this Bersa.

User review of the Galco Miami Classic shoulder rig.

By randy
Sat, Jul 21, 2007 3:22 pm

As was discussed in this thread I purchased a Galco Miami Classic shoulder rig a few weeks ago.

I’ve been using it with my .40S&W Browning Hi-power and 2 spare mags. 

Standard wear is a T-shirt, shorts/jeans and a Cabela’s Safari shirt as a cover garment, same as what I normally wear carrying with the IWB, or from before I started carrying as a matter of fact.

After wearing it off and on for 3 weeks or so, including a trip to the Smokey Mountains that included 2 6+ hour days behind the wheel, I developed the following conclusions:

PRO:

MUCH more comfortable than my normal IWB when sitting in the vehicle for extended periods of time.

100% better access to my pistol from the seated position than my usual IWB, especially when wearing a seat belt.

Much better concealablity and better access than my previous cross country driving solution, a London Bridge Trading Company Tanker style holster with a cross chest strap.  Not really concealable, especially in warm winter.

Better control of the weapon when making a sit down type pit stop. Don’t have to worry about the pistol hitting the floor, or pulling it out and placing it on the toilet back to keep it out of view, and even then the holster and spare mag pouch would be visible.

Easy to take on and off (as long as the straps don’t twist, takes practice when taking it off and storing it). Keeps everything in one package. Good for overnight in a motel if you need to grab it and go. In the motel I just laid it over a chair (pistol on front, mags on back side of chair) and laid my cover garment over it.

The grab it and go was also good when the buddy I was traveling with wanted to pop into town for some supplies. I was able to throw on the rig and a cover shirt quickly, rather than having to change into a different pair of shorts with belt loops, getting out a “gun belt”, and putting on the holster and mag pouch.

It is very nicely balanced when carrying 2 loaded mags in the offside pouch.  Wearing it all day does not seem to put an undo strain on my neck and shoulders the way cheap nylon type rigs have done in the past (Usually measured in minutes before I didn’t want it on any more). The 4 point connector Galco uses lays flat and does not dig in.  After a few minutes I quit noticing the straps at all.

The straps are set using Chicago screws once the length is set. Secure but it’s easy to unscrew and adjust if you want to play with it. 

I LOVE the smell of gun leather.

CON:

Not quite as concealable as my IWB. Bending over to adjust straps on cargo carrier on back of vehicle the holster fell out into sight. Also easier to flash if the wind catches an un-buttoned cover garment.  Also, if you take off the cover garment, most folks won’t notice the IWB if they’re more than a few feet away depending on if the color of my clothing contrasts with the grip of my pistol.  A shoulder rig would stand out from a very good distance.

Can’t conceal it as deeply (at least in summer) as with my IWB.  With that, a wife-beater T-shirt tucked in and a T-shirt or polo/golf shirt un-tucked and my clothing pretty well blends in .

No place I know of around here will you let you practice live fire drawing with a shoulder holster.

I’ve read from others here on the forum that a rig of this type will beat you to death if you’re running or doing other strenuous activity.  I have no direct experience, but I can see how this would be the case.

I had to be careful what I placed in the left chest pocket of my cover garment.  I usually carry my Palm there, but the grip of the pistol would knock against it if I was walking at a good pace, making noise and possibly attracting attention.

NEUTRAL:

Price.  I paid about $200 out the door from a vendor at a gunshow (First American Ordnance).  But that included strong and weak side tie-downs that it turns I don’t need. The vendor told me I didn’t need them but I purchased them anyway. Next time I’ll listen. He also helped me get it adjusted and gave some tips on wearing it.

However, when you total up what I’ve spent on my IWB rig: Holster (Ted Blocker ST-17, $65), Mag Carrier (Galco QMC, $46), and good quality belt (Ted Blocker, around $60), I’ve spent around $170. It doesn’t seem as bad to me as those items were acquired over a period of years (I think I actually spent less than $50 on the holster 14 years or so ago) and are “modular” and therefore usable in a variety of situations.  The shoulder rig is an basically an all or nothing affair.

However there is a universe in difference between the Galco rig and the cheap ($20-50) nylon shoulder rigs in comfort, design, usability, and quality.  This is definitely a case of you get what you pay for.  Besides, I consider this part of my life support equipment, not a good place to skimp.

Muzzle discipline:  Some people have expressed concern that a horizontal shoulder holster places the muzzle of the pistol such that anyone behind you is looking down the muzzle.

This is the reason most ranges won’t let you practice live fire draws from a shoulder holster.

As for the holster itself, the trigger is covered and the thumbreak is between the hammer and the firing pin when carried cocked and locked (as is proper for a BHP or other Single Action Auto).  I carry with the safety on, and the safety is also covered and cannot be brought to an off-safe condition without partially withdrawing the pistol from the holster.

I also practice so that I do not swipe the safety off until the pistol is pointed down range and to not put my finger on the trigger until the sights are on the target.

Keep in mind that other types of holsters (IWBs, pocket holsters for instance) have the muzzle point at other parts of your body in some positions (your thigh for instance) and some types of holsters (cross-draw, fanny packs) can put the muzzle into covering someone standing next to you.  I don’t even want to think about Thunder Wear.

You pay your money, pick your posion and you take your chances.

For me, I would place that as a “Neutral”.  YMMV

Gun Geek factor: Same rig worn by Don Johnson on a couple of seasons of Miami Vice.  Whoop-de-do.  Also, shoulder rigs had a mystique when I was growing up: worn by secret agents, private dicks, etc.  Not a factor in buying or using one, but still kinda neat in an adolescent gun nerd kind of way.

Bottom line:  I think this was a good purchase.  Fills a niche (occasional long car trips, overnight stays in motels, etc.), but will probably not replace my IWB set up as my primary carry method for day to day use.  All told, at this point, I have no reservations in recommending this if you’re looking for a quality shoulder rig.